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The Genealogy of the Story Family

Lt. Col. Henry Herbert Douglas-Withers, MC

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David Douglas-Withers - Letters 1944
Mostly between his father and his housemaster at Eton
2 Fellows RoadFarnboroughHantsJan 2nd 44
Dear Marsden
David's eyes were tested on Friday last and the occulist says he must take to glasses as soon as possible as he is shortsighted. This development the occulist says is not by any means uncommon between the ages of 11 and 16 and it seems that it has been taking place during the last two years. It is a setback but there it is. The Navy insofar as the executive is concerned is out of the question, and the engineering branch too. However David would just about pass for paymaster! I have talked the whole thing over with him and come to the conclusion that his prospects even for the paymasters branch are poor since the competition is just as keen as for other branches i.e. I gather that just as high a standard is necessary. Even if by good fortune he did well enough to get into the place list, I am quite certain that he would be marked down at the interview if he appears before the Board with glasses. The occulist more or less hinted at that, and he seemed to know a good deal about it. Unless you, since you have all the work of preparing him advise otherwise, his name will be withdrawn. He is quite prepared to have a shot at the exam but I feel that courting failure is worse than courting doubtful success and can do him no good in any way.
As regards an alternative, here we are up against a real problem because they can be no doubt whatever that he will have to serve in one of the Forces at least for a time. That will mean a break in his studies whatever he takes up, and by the time he resumes them his whole outlook may have changed and probably will have. I think his heart is really in a Regular Army commission but even here I feel that glasses may have some influence since commissions will be given by selection and not by examination. However that is in the lap of the Gods and it seems to me that his studies between now and his enlistment should be influenced by their value to him whether he goes into the Army or into civil life and I cannot help feeling that languages will help with either problem. I should much like him to go for the Consular Service because I feel that he might do well in that sphere if he could weather the exam. He has a wide choice of subjects and could choose those that suit him. Here again the coming break in his studies will handicap him but as it will be the same for everybody it is possible that entry may be made easier because of that. Neither of us think that it is any good tackling Forestry or Agriculture at this stage as David's mind is far from made up under this heading and he wants to tackle work which is going to be of value to him whatever line he takes in life. We therefore suggest the following course for your consideration. For the next two halves a language in extra studies. This language to be either German, Italian or Spanish. Any of these will be useful to him in the Army and also in his future career whatever it may be. As regards choice I myself feel that everybody will get to know a certain amount of German before the war and its effects are over and that a knowledge of it will not carry the same weight as Italian all Spanish. I feel that he a you or the careers master can help and David will therefore take your advice. I feel that there is much to be said for Italian. The foregoing will be in the place of maths extra studies. David further, suggests that he takes French in extras and remains a science specialist i.e. Taking physics, chemistry, and maths.
As regards his immediate future he will enlist in the army as soon as the time is ripe. He would like to go into the 60th as he will no others in the Regiment and we have no family connection with a it, but for the duration of the war, assuming that he is otherwise acceptable this aspect or condition is not essential. Later if he takes a regular commission and are no vacancies in the 60th he may get another regiment he likes.
I hope you will think that he has decided on his plans with some degree of wisdom. I think he has. Even if peace is arrived at this year I feel quite sure that youngsters of David's age will be kept on to serve for some years yet as those who have been serving the longest will be released first, and it will be left to the Regular Army and the younger soldiers to carry on until times are reasonably normal.
If you let me know your opinion of this plan I will then, if you agree, withdraw it David's name from the Navy Exam and he will carry on on the lines I have indicated in this letter.
With many good wishes for 1944
Yours Sincerely
PS. I notes that the enlistment method has been referred to in a letter to the Times and my wife is very much afraid that Bevin may take some action to prevent further enlistments before registration. You will of course have thought of this. I don't myself think he can since Army enlistments must go on and the War Office would be up against Bevin at once if he poaches on their preserves.
FROM H.K. MARSDEN, ETON COLLEGE, WINDSOR. TEL. WINDSOR 20
Jan 4 1944
Dear Douglas-Withers
Many thanks for yours all of Jan 2. I shall be back up Eton on 10th, so do not bother answer before the weekend, as I shall not be able to affect anything till then.
Your plan for D is the status quo, apart from the substitution of a language for maths in ???: I have no objection to this, but I feel that (a) it continues his scientific education, which he does not like & which does not get the best from him & (b) the amount of Italian, or Spanish or German that is absorbed in two halves of 3 times a week in a very mixed division is not considerable.
I agree that he may as well abandon the RN: whether the marines have any lighter ocular demand I don't know, but the competition is smaller & it allows another shot.
If you want D to learn some languages, there is no objection to his being a language specialist for the two terms this entails 8 hours French, 6 hours German, 4 hours history and ??? ??? (which could be Italian or Spanish).
At present he knows no German, & if he is to learn any effectively, the grammatical part of it is far better done at school under discipline than left to chance.
I don't know if you have considered & rejected this, or if you thought it ???: But you don't allude to it.
I should like to know ??? work whether you you are attracted by this or whether to go on as you incline in your letter.
Yours sincerely
Marsden
D must settle about KRRC next half or at latest in May: I don't think the enlisting will be stopped, & I believe everyone knows all about it, including Bevin.
2 Fellows RoadFarnboroughHantsJan 10th 44
Dear Marsden
Thank you for your letter of the fourth inst. David's future has required a good deal of thought and may require yet more. As far as it is possible in these uncertain times however I feel that I am beginning to see some ray of light.
His failure to reach the Navy standard has I realise wasted a lot of valuable time insofar as general education is concerned. However one could not foresee that and that's all there is to say. His sight however raises a new problem since it may affect many things. We have as far as we can talked over things in much detail and have explored a good many avenues with their alternatives, and these are the conclusions we have arrived at.
a) David will try for a Regular Commission.
b) He will, during his period of service read for some other profession in order to have a second string to his bow in case he does not get the commission either by failure in selection or as the result of his eyes.
Taking (a) first:
There will be no entrance examination so that any special course of study will not be required. He has a school certificates and that will I imagine be the only educational qualification. If he gets his commission well and good and under this heading the sailing is plain enough and Eton has done all it can do.
Now for (b):
I feel that it is on this we must concentrate, not only for the remainder of his time with you but also while he is serving. It is of course asking a great deal of any boy to suddenly make a decision like this when he has been brought up with the idea that his future profession was settled for him and his education directed towards that end. We have considered the Consular Service but the exam is a severe test and we feel that the break in his studies when he is called up will handicap him a great deal. He might do very well in law - he can talk well and although he is at present inclined to argue without knowledge, he will I feel sure argue well when he has it. A barrister's life is however expensive and precarious and I couldn't afford it. The next best thing of the same family is a solicitor and here I feel on safer ground. Once David has been started on a definite plan I'm sure he will go through with it. He is at present at a difficult age but something clear to work for he must have and he seems to take very much to the idea of being a solicitor. He would have enough to buy himself a partnership in course of time. I cannot say that he will stick to this idea but he must have something up his sleeve and here we have hit the nail on the head. As a solicitor he has a great variety of openings before him quite apart from the work of a practicing solicitor. He will he says read for his exams while serving and that is his present decision.
This may seem a hurry to haphazard decision but if he takes it seriously he can't go wrong and I feel that he can get the distance. The exams do not I think involve either maths or anything technical. However I shall write and get details and no doubt you have from.
Now for his work during the next two halves;
The suggestion made in my last letter which you say is the " status quo apart from the substitution of a language for maths" was made because I felt that if he went for any of the military courses at a University it would be better to stick in the main to what he has been doing. However it seems that his school certificate will get him into any of these courses and we can leave things at that.
Your suggestion that he should become a language specialist for the remainder of his time seems to offer a sound general foundation for whatever profession he is likely to adopt and languages and history are both subjects he can continue to study while serving (and probably much improve if he goes to the Continent on service) and they may be useful in his solicitor exams. We therefore think that he had better take languages and settle on that. If it is possible to give him an insight into his law studies so much the better. He must be put into the picture somehow to enable him to tackle the work in the right way and this particularly so if he is to carry on his studies more or less alone as he will have to when serving.
As regards the Marines, he would like to have had a shot for them if his eyes would allow him to, but I've rang up the occulist on Friday and he said that he thought the tests were the same as for the Navy. However I have written to find out what they are. I do not want to leave anything unexplored if it holds out any hope.
I have tried not to be long winded but the problem is a complicated one and has become more so by this sudden setback over the eyesight tests.
I must now believe the final decision to you or rather get your blessing on my proposals, and ask you to go ahead on them.
Hope you have had a pleasant rest.
Yours sincerelyHH Douiglas-Withers
FROM H.K. MARSDEN. ETON COLLEGE, WINDSOR. TEL. WINDSOR 20
Jan 12 1944
Dear Douglas-Withers
Many thanks for your letter of Jan 10. I have arranged for David to be a Language Specialist, and do Italian in Extra Studies. This will be combined with 4 hours a week of history, probably some from European history; and he will have no maths nor science.
One or two things occur to me: is his sight bad enough to disqualify him for the army?
Again, I do not see him doing much reading for an alternative profession while in their ranks or at an OCTU: the surroundings and opportunities do not make this easy, or even practicable from what I hear of the life that they lead; nor is there much energy left off to a day's training.
There is nothing to be done at this stage about any training or examination for a solicitors job:
As regards the details of his immediate military career, if any: I understood that you wanted the KRRC, but you also speak of the University courses: these latter are for RA or RE or RAC, and do not apply to the Infantry. I think that this must be resolved fairly soon, as entries for the October courses (if there is to be any, which is at present very nebulous: the W.O. notice reads " in the event of there being..."), have to be in about April or May. So as to clear the registration issue. Again if the KRRC or RB is in view he must be excepted by the Rifle authorities, which means an interview: and he can't travel on both lines at once.
Yours sincerely
H Marsden
FROM H.K. MARSDEN. ETON COLLEGE, WINDSOR. TEL. WINDSOR 20
Jan 15 1944
Dear Douglas-Withers
Many thanks for yours of Jan 14. I am afraid that I do not yet understand what you mean about the University course; you say that you mentioned them " when he and I agreed to suggest what you described in your reply as the status quo etc."
If David intends to run for one of these courses, should they exist (which appears to be very doubtful), the application will have to go in fairly soon, probably by April 1; and if you mean that he is to apply for this as well as seek acceptance by the KRRC or RB, it may perhaps work in practice, but he will get a raspberry from one or the other or both.
You need not bother to answer this, provided that he comes back here with the answer clear in his own mind.
Yours sincerely
H. Marsden
2 Fellowes Road
Farnborough
Hants
Jan 17th 44.
Dear Marsden,
I am sorry if I have not been clear about the university courses. If I have lost the art of explaining myself clearly the sooner I correct things the better. When David's eye test put in out of them running for the Navy, we - that is " he and I" talked things over and suggested the first plan in my letter of Jan 2nd ie. to take a language in extra studies etc. You vetoed this plan more or less by saying it was practically the status quo, but when David and I suggested it we had in mind the possibility that he might go for one of the University Courses if they opened up again and that the work he had been doing for the Navy would be about the same as he would have to do at these courses. On reconsideration we decided to adopt your language plan and that stands.
In my last letter of Jan 14th I mentioned these courses as a second string and this seems to have caused some sort of misunderstanding. David's plan is to go for the 60th and I do not think for one moment that he will change his mind but when he gets back to Eton he may talk the new situation over with other boys and write to me and say " if these courses open again I would like to go for one and give up the 60th idea". If he were to do that I would not stand in his way. I feel that he has been confronted with a difficult future as the result of his eyes and if he at this period does change his mind it is only to be expected and every aisle at once must be made for the very sudden new decisions he has to make. There will be no question of having a double plan as you suggest. There was and is the possibility that you, before David enlists in the 60th, might write to me or tell him that University courses are open again. If you did that he would definitely go for one or the other but I do not anticipate any change in his present idea of enlisting in the 60th.
In any case, whatever he finally does I shall not suggest any change in the work plan i.e. David becomes a language specialist.
I hope I have made myself clear
Yours sincerely
H Douglas-Withers
April 3 1944
ETON COLLEGE
WINDSOR
Dear Douglas-Withers
Since I last wrote to you officially, we have had a lot of correspondence, and a lot of water has flowed; but the new regime seems to be now fully underway: David's military situation has clarified itself, and he has made a start on the languages. His reports strike quite a different note from those that he earned over science; they show a promise, they disclose interest and some latent ability, and I'm sure that he is enjoying his new pabulum far more than the old.
He started at some disadvantage in having no knowledge of German, while most others had been learning it wire he did science; but he used to be fairly good at French, and he seems to be recovering some of this. He is not going on with the Italian, party because there is so little of it, and also with two languages going, one new one is enough at a time.
Outside his work he has taken to boxing this half, with a certain amount of fives; but they have not wanted him on the river, largely because he can be called " fully trained"; but he is putting on weight and may well be discarded in the summer.
I think he has grown up a good deal in the last few months and he has a goodish headpiece, but he has still to learn to write, and also to express himself, not much less in his own language than in mathematics.
Yours sincerelyH Marsden
2 Fellows Road.
Farnborough.
Hants.
May 2nd 44.
Dear Marsden
I did not answer your usual end-of-half letter at once because I felt there was really nothing to say. David's reports were on the whole satisfactory enough. I note that you say that he has still to " learn to express himself" whereas Van Oss in his report says " he is full of ideas and can express them clearly and forcefully, though not yet very attractively". There is a conflict of opinion here - not that it matters. I agree with Van Oss that he is full of ideas and can express them forcefully, when he can marshal his facts in his mind. He does that rather slowly and labor is at it and in that sense I Agri with few that the expression of his ideas wants tuning up.
His future is a grim problem and I really don't seem that anything can be done. He is about to enter the golden years - or what should be the golden years - insofar as provision for his future is concerned, and he must instead cease his studies for Military service. He is at the very worst page possible - the war is too far spent to hold out much hopes of any worthwhile advancement for him and his years as a soldier will stand in the way of preparation for his future. That is the situation.
The problem and is of course not a general one. A great many boys will be able to do their service and then without having to consider a return to their studies step into their father's shoes or into his business or office, but my particular (or peculiar!) qualifications do not pass from father to son in the same way and their values cease when I retire or die. David must therefore be educated for some profession. I am fully prepared to provide the money for this from capital butts David is not available to educate. If you know the Aunt Sarah I shall be very grateful to have it but frankly I feel that I am up against an insurmountable obstacle - at least for the time being - and it is time which can never be recovered.
David has during these holidays appeared serious and thoughtful and even moody. I have tried to find out what is in his mind but without any success. He is of course passing through a difficult time and it may be just that but we are, and always have been, the closest of friends and I'm confident that he would have told me had anything very serious been worrying him. He seems to have developed a great love of good music and will go anywhere to hear it or sit and listen to it for hours. This off course is not going to get him anywhere because he never studied it but it is an interesting sidelight on his development.
He is undoubtedly getting more methodical and tidy in all he does as home and perhaps military life will improve that a good deal more.
He fully realises the pass to which the war has brought him and at the moment seems to think that his best course is to go for a regular commission. As far as one is allowed to plan, that seems to be the only definite course open to him. His brother has been given a regular commission in the Gunners. He has been taken out of Italy to rest and is now in the Middle East.
It is quite possible that David quietness these holidays may be due to the facts that this next half at Eton is his last. Once or twice he has mentioned that he felt sad about it and has talked of the happy times he has had. I think he has chosen his friends well - those we met we have liked very much.
We shall be over for the 3rd of June but I shall not attempt to get to talk with you that day. Later on I shall try and run over to say goodbye.
Yours sincerely
H.H. Douglas-Withers
From H.K. Marsden. Eton College, Windsor. Tel. Windsor 20
May 4 1944
Dear Douglas-Withers
Thanks for your letter, which I have not time to deal with at length; but there are two points worth mentioning.
The conflict between van Oss and me about his expressing himself should have been better explained: I was referring to speech while he sees more of his written work.
As regards the future; if his career appeared to require the University, it might pay him to transfer from the KRRC to a University course for RA, as these courses begin in April, and their upper age limit is 18.9 on April 1; he might then be able to merge his military training into a regular University time, as the course, if it is ever held, would not be over until October 1945.
I don't know if this attracts you, but the information of the raised age limit (after lowering it for 1944) and he came this week.
There are similar courses for RN and RAF with same limits of age.
Yours sincerely
Marsden
He arrived back 20 minutes late last night through his own incompetence in looking out his trains
Farnborough
May 10th 44.
Dear Marsden
Thank you very much for letting me know about the Gunner courses. There is plenty of time for him to make up his mind and I will talk it over with him. I don't want to muddle him but in his particular circumstances he must ponder over every course he takes in these days and consider how it will affect his future.
As regards his train last Wednesday, he had nothing to do with looking it up, and it if he gave you that impression he must have been protecting me. However there was no question of failure on my part to look his train up properly. I should never admits to being a " fussy man" but I do admit to being a bit fussy about trains. The timetable we use is a local one and has never let us down before and we have used it for the last two years between here, Windsor, Staines, Richmond and Esher. At Aldershot station I inquired about May timings and was told that none would come out until the end of the month (and I see that confirmed in this morning's papers). That the 6:52 did run we know because we saw David off on it so the change must have been made between Staines and London since he says there was no connection there. We notice to another boy returning to Eton by the same train!
I am sorry he was late but it wasn't his fault, and although the responsibility was mine I hope this absolves David.
I agree with you entirely about powers of expression as regards speech and on paper, and that was what I wanted to convey. He can write an extremely good letter if he likes and expresses himself clearly with a good deal of humour, but in speech I have occasionally is stopped him with the words "Now David just try and marshal your facts and start again". I think he has a sort of two-way brain and when explaining something is at the same time thinking about something quite different in a sort of subconscious way.
By the way I see that the Law Society do not encourage a University preparation for law students now!! They prefer a more intimate education with a good law firm in actual practice, and since I do not set great store by the amount of work boys do at Oxford or Cambridge I am very much in sympathy with the Law Society
Yours sincerely
HH Douglas-Withers
From H.K. Marsden. Eton College, Windsor. Tel. Windsor 20
Aug 3 1944
Dear Douglas-Withers
I have parted from David with great regret, not only that he is leaving Eton, but that he is passing out into an unknown world, daunted of his intended profession, and with an outlook that can only be uncertain: he has, however, more chance of attaining his object than many who are dependent on civil post war conditions.
His education, through no fault of his own, has been muddled and his start on languages has met with varied success; his reports are not in harmony with the comment on his French paper which I enclose, and as he is not a person who ever puts his best cards on the table I am rather inclined to attach some importance to this. He started too late to make a good job of languages, but the foundation is there if he likes to build on it.
His size has pre destined his athletic career here, and his first half I said secretly, if not openly, that he would end as cox of the VIII; and he has had very successful years to steer it: in some ways he may regret not having also coxed the winning house IV, but I can well see that he had had his fill of the job. Although he has been kept out of most other activities, he has not suffered socially and he has always had a circle of decent friends.
There was a moment when I fault that success was going to his head, but it was a brief one, and I was very likely wrong; and latterly I have been pleasantly surprised by his complete self control.
I think that he has enjoyed himself here: he has never failed to do his job by his work, it even at times when it was very discouraging and I have never found him the least trouble either in the house or elsewhere.
He leaves here with all our good wishes for the future, and I hope that we shall often see him down here.
Yours sincerely
Marsden
Owner of original | Myles |
Date | 1944 |
Linked to | David Bethell Everett Douglas-Withers; Lt. Col. Henry Herbert Douglas-Withers, MC |
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